Feynman on Understanding

transcription of excerpt of video lecture of Richard Feynman


Suppose you have two theories, A and B. Both completely different psychologically, different ideas and so on. But all the consequences they computed are exactly the same. They may even agree with the experiments. The two theories, although they sound different at the beginning, have all the consequences the same. It’s usually easy to prove by doing a little mathematics ahead of time to show that the logic of this one and this one will always give corresponding consequences. Suppose we have two such theories: how are we going to decide which one is right?

No way. Not by science. Because they both agree with experiments there’s no way to distinguish one from the other. So two theories, although they may have deeply different ideas behind them, may be mathematically identical, and usually people say then in science ‘one doesn’t know how to distinguish them’. And that’s right.

However, for psychological reasons, in order to get new theories, these two things are very far from equivalent. Because one gives a man very different ideas than another. By putting a theory in a certain kind of framework you get an idea what could change. Which in theory A would talk about something, you say I’ll change that idea here, but to find out what corresponding things you’re going to change in B could be very complicated. It may not be a simple idea. In other words, a simple change here makes maybe a very different theory than a simple change there. In other words, although they are identical before they’re changed, there are certain ways of changing one which look natural, which don’t look natural in the other. Therefore psychologically, we must keep all those theories in our head. Every theoretical physicist that’s any good knows six or seven different theoretical representations for exactly the same physics, and knows that they’re all equivalent, and that nobody is ever going to be able to decide which one is right – at that level – but he keeps them in his head, hoping that they’ll give him different ideas.

Incidentally that reminds me of another thing, and that is that the philosophy or the ideas around the theory: a lot of ideas, ‘I believe there is a space-time’ or something like that in order to discuss your analyses… these ideas change enormously when there are very tiny changes in the theory. For instance, Newton’s ideas about space and time agree with experiment very well. But in order to get to get the correct motion of the orbit of Mercury, which is a tiny tiny difference, the difference in the character of the theory with which you started with is enormous. Reason is, these are so simple, so perfect. They produce definite results. In order to get something that produces a little different results, it has to be completely different. You can’t make imperfections on a perfect thing, you have to have another perfect thing. So the philosophical ideas between Newton’s theory of gravitation and Einstein’s theory of gravitation, their differences, are enormous.

What are these philosophies? These philosophies are really tricky ways to compute consequences quickly. A philosophy, which is sometimes called an understanding of the law, is simply a way a person holds the laws in his mind so as to guess quickly at consequences.

Some people have said, and it’s true for instance in the case of Maxwell’s equations and other equations, ‘Nevermind the philosophies, nevermind anything of this kind, just guess the equations. The problem is only the compute the answers so that they agree with experiment, and it is not necessary to have a philosophy, or worry about the equations’. That’s true. In a sense. Yes, and no. It’s good in the sense if you’re only guessing at the equations, you’re not prejudicing yourself and you’ll guess better. On the other hand maybe the philosophy helps you to get it. It’s very hard to say.

For those people who insist however that the only thing that’s important is that the theory agrees with experiment, I would like to make an imaginary discussion between a Mayan astronomer and his student. The Mayans were able to calculate with great precision the predictions, for example, for eclipses and the position of the moon in the sky and Venus and so on. However it was all done by arithmetic. You count some numbers you subtract certain numbers and so on. There was no discussion of what the moon was. There wasn’t even a discussion of the idea that it went around. There was only calculate the time there would be an eclipse or a time when it would rise full moon and when it would rise half moon. Just calculated, only.

Suppose that a young man went to the astronomer and said, I have an idea. Maybe those things are going around, and they’re balls of rock, we could calculate how they move in a completely different way, rather than just what time they appear in the sky.

So of course the Mayan astronomer would say Yes, how accurate can you predict eclipses? He says I haven’t developed the thing very far. He says But we can calculate eclipses more accurately than you can with your model and so you must not pay any attention to that, this mathematical schema is better.

There’s a very strong tendency in people to say against some idea, if someone comes up with an idea, says let’s suppose the world is this way, and you say to them what would you get for the answer for such and such problem, and he says I haven’t developed it far enough, and you say well we have already developed it much further and we can get the answers very accurately.

So it is a problem as to whether or not as to worry about philosophies behind ideas.

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Explaining vs Explaining Away

FK: revised inside view of the XG-70
FK: and new Isumi shot
FK: also some new art with Sumika in hospital clothes after the first shut down
FK: also the translators changed ‘autistic mode’ to ‘safe mode’
FK: and the HUD shots of all the girls use some new updated ones
KS: safe mode is a sensible enough change i suppose
KS: still worse but sensible
GA: GITS copyrighted it
FK: I could take it or leave it
KS: did they? didn’t i hear it in psycho-pass too?
KS: it’s a very good word to use to describe such a thing
KS: i heard “autistic mode” in GITS long before i heard “autistic” or “autism” the condition in general
AA: psychologist protip: everytime 4chan says autism, its actually social phobia or OCD
AA: do not fall for the memes
FK: people have confused the word ‘autistic
FK: with savant
FK: 98% of the time
BV: tfw ocd
KS: wittgenstein protip: words mean whatever people use them to mean
FK: but that’s wrong
BV: how do i shake it
KS: i defer to wittgenstein before i defer to online strangers
FK: english is extremely rigid, each word has only one meaning ascribed to it. Each word represents a specific idea
KS: what does “apple” mean?
FK: look at the difference between ‘massacre’ and ‘slaughter’
KS: are you going to tell a bunch of hooligans discussing women that they’re using the word apple “wrong”?
AA: filthy deconstructionists
FK: I just won
FK: t
FK: know what they refer to
FK: since they are using the word incorrectly
KS: you are choosing to feel righteous over what you believe a word to mean, rather than attempting to understand words as they are said
KS: that’s one way to go about life
KS: one which i think is stupid.
FK: I bet you think dictionaries are stupid too
KS: i do
FK: well enjoy being illiterate I guess
KS: if someone argues with me and says “b-but look at the dictionary”, i know they’re a tool
EV: they have a*
EV: that tool being a dictionary
KS: they are a tool of the dictionary
FK: but that’s incorrect
EV: big dictionary
KS: men don’t have ideas, ideas have men.
FK: the dictionary is a tool to help better communicate
EV: is this autism
FK: and express yourself
KS: the dictionary is a political tool for one person to whack over the head of another

Vector of Truth vs Vector of History, 2

ZB: The Falklands belong to England
KS: i am 90% confident the recent argentinian sub incident was caused by anglos
ZB: the eternal anglo
YQ: is that the one argentina won
BD: anglos rise again
YQ: the war thingo?
ZB: PERFIDIOUS ALBION
YQ: oh wait they lost that one riught?
YQ: the naval warfare thingo
KS: they lost
YQ: from back then
YQ: yeah
YQ: they lost hjorribly
YQ: F
KS: they lost and then for the next half century the anglos have continued to fuck them
KS: it was really really terrible
YQ: war is always terrible it’s only fun if you ‘re ont he winning side
YQ: look at typical teamswitcher italians
KS: if you look at media from the years immediately after WW2, everyone really believed argentina was up to become a superpower
KS: europe was destroyed
KS: america was superpower
KS: russia had nukes but everyone knew they were poor
KS: it was basically
KS: #1: america
KS: #2: argentina
ZB: Argentina should have become one, they have everything they need geographically and resource wise. But they were unfortunately too stupid to make it.
KS: you read Starship Troopers, THE book that started science fiction
KS: where did it take place on earth?
KS: Buenos Aires.
KS: Buenos Aires, Argentina.
KS: that’s because that’s what people believed back then.
KS: before the falklands war and the anglos fucking of argentina.
NB: reminder argentina didnt become a superpower because we got fucked by socialists and also USA who put us really deep in debt with their forced dictatorship from the shadows
NB: malvinas was just to hide what the fuck was going on
NB: that the goverment was incompetent and corrupt
ZB: maybe you upside down mexicans should just git gud instead of blaming others for your problems
NA: ^
NB: >Blame the victim
NB: ?
NA: sometimes
NA: sometimes
NA: they bring it on themselves
KS: oh yeah NB is argentina
ZB: You can blame the USA but it isn’t gonna get you jack shit
ZB: not even pity
ZB: CIA doesn’t give a fuck
ZB: USA citizens don’t give a fuck
KS: USA is basically out to make sure no power anywhere ever can consolidate without their control, and they can do it too
KS: but especially in the western hemisphere.
ZB: We’ve been doing this shit destabilizing any other government in the Americas for literally 130 years
KS: 130?
KS: 1890…?
ZB: 130 is probably conservative
ZB: I guess the Monroe Doctrine was even earlier
ZB: like a lot
KS: one of these days i need to read up on the history of the Marines
ZB: but the run up to the Spanish American war was when USA got a huge hard on for imperialism
KS: their official history is probably the closest to the real history out of all of them
KS: i read up on the opening of Japan with Commodore Perry a month or so back
KS: it’s really great stuff
KS: all the political bluffs and maneuvering
ZB: Everything going on in Asia with the Europeans in that era is pretty interesting
ZB: China got fucked so hard
ZB: it’s hard to even comprehend how fucked China got
KS: from western standards, maybe
KS: china’s understanding of its own history is basically a long line of “here’s how the rulers of the past have fucked things up” so the culture is pretty used to it
BD: KS
BD: china had about 200 years
KS: the east has a very very different understanding of the world than the west
BD: of getting butt fucked
KS: 200 is a wrong number
KS: you want 2000 or 3000
BD: na
BD: china was fine
BD: untill it fell to mongolia
KS: it fell to mongolia because of internal problems more than mongolian military supremacy
KS: or maybe im thinking of the manchus, i forget
ZB: Even setting that aside, the Brits and the western powers + Japan really did some crazy shit in China around the turn of the 20th century
KS: in any case their conception of getting fucked, or at least their historians’ conception of getting fucked, places recent western fuckery at not even close to anything else
ZB: And leading on before that with the Opium
KS: like westerners have a very long philosophical line of thought that is just not the same as china’s
ZB: The Opium crisis via Britain in china was crazy. Also the civil wars that were more or less started as reaction to Western influence were incredibly bloody.
NB: I see I see
KS: the west basically expects rulers to treat them as having some inherent value; all men are created equal can be traced to athens or even further back to zoroastrianism
NB: so this….. is Fate/Grand Order
KS: the conception of power is “power comes from the people”
ZB: The Boxer Rebellion in particular was one hell of a wild event
KS: the conception of power in china is “whoever is emperor owns everyone else, you all do what he says or off goes your head”
KS: and thats how it was for 3000, 4000 years
KS: they can say what they want today, it’s still basically the same
KS: they say they’re communist, but we know what that means
KS: they know what it means too.
BD: asian culture is more community oriented
BD: compared to western being more focused on the individual
KS: that’s a different topic. i’m just talking about history of rulers and power.
BD: no
BD: its really connected
KS: takes too much effort to connect
KS: in any case china’s gotten fucked a lot by a lot of things and they have a long line of historians talking about it
NB: in the end people only think about themselves so this “community” or “communism” is all a facade
NB: the chinks are worse than jews
KS: opium wars are nothing compared to mao
BD: opium wars led to mao
KS: splitting of shanghai was nothing compared to fall of the song dynasty
KS: i’m not saying you’re wrong BD
KS: maybe i just spend too much time around certain people
KS: namely the new american alt right and white nationalists
BD: compartmentalizing history is a mistake
KS: and the tone of everything is “white people fuck yeah”
KS: so i feel like i have to balance things out and look the other way
KS: they always talk about things from the european perspective
BD: you live in america dont you?
KS: which happens to be “the people from overseas” perspective for the past 400 years or so
BD: no shit its going to be euro centric
KS: okay…. so you understand my intentions then
KS: i need to look the other way
BD: yeah but you are looking like its two opposing sides when its just different angles
BD: in most cases
KS: how did the opening of japan look like from the perspective of japan, how did the opening of china look like from the perspective of china
BD: yeah
KS: no, i’m not
KS: i’m just talking that way
KS: that’s a slightly different topic on which i have a really strong belief in
KS: i absolutely fucking hate having to say “on one hand theres this opinion, on the other hand theres that opinion”
KS: or when i’m saying something about a group of people, “just generally speaking, i’m not saying absolutely everyone of this group is like this”
KS: i fucking hate having to preface myself for the sake of idiots
KS: “not all women”
KS: no fucking shit you literal imbecile
KS: the fingers on your own hands are of different lengths; how could it be possible that anything else in the world are identical?
KS: i know there’s “euro-centric” or “east-centric” ways of looking at things, i also know euro is the standard
KS: so i just say the other way
KS: if people cant put it together for themselves, that’s too big of a problem for me to solve.

You Shall Call Me Ma’am

SH: you know what i realized the problem with trannies is
CR: huh
CR: I’m talking to someone right now about this exact topic.
SH: they base their entire existence around being a girl
SH: they literally kill themselves if they dont accomplish it
SH: like come on
SH: dont yuo have any other talents or anything to be proud of
KS: you make it sound more honorable than it actually is
SH: why is being a girl so important
KS: it’s not about being a girl, it’s about being paid attention to
KS: there’s a reason why speedrunning is filled with trannies
KS: it just so happens that for external reasons unrelated outside of their own control, it became more and more socially acceptable to cut your dick off
KS: and that cutting your dick off means you can call yourself a girl
KS: girls being the literal highest base social value you can have out of any and all human categories.
KS: if you watch their words their emphasis isn’t actually on being a girl
KS: it’s that you have to recognize them as whatever they decide to call themselves
CR: t. trans…?
KS: are you calling me a tranny
CR: No
CR: I’m wondering if you are or not
CR: Nigga I dont know who is what anymore.
KS: my dick provides me the second best pleasure in life
CR: Your hand is the 1st?
KS: it is completely inconceivable to me that i would do anything to it
CR: :^)
KS: no, sleep is the first
CR: ooh.
CR: sleep
KS: sleep is the greatest pleasure.
CR: Sleep is the biggest time sink and I hate it.
KS: but anyways back to what i was saying
KS: it’s about them getting to tell you what you’re allowed to call them
KS: so long as you/the public recognize them as that, it’s equivalent to social status
KS: one popular position they currently use other than “i am a girl” is “i am a software developer”
KS: neither of these are particularly important to them, it’s the method that’s important
KS: so if tomorrow something else is higher, they can move to that instead.
KS: not that all trans are this way obviously, some fall for the meme and then kill themselves when they find out they replaced their dick with a second asshole

Mindsets and PUBG

“What do they see in [thing/person]???”

It’s a common refrain when people encounter an interpretation vastly different from their own. It’s easy to say it’s wrong if others simply disagree with you, and similarly simply if you’ve seen it before and believe it comes down to personal preference. But it can go from that to feeling so foreign it’s as if it came out of the unknown.

It’s as if they came from a different world.

An inconceivable thought, to the post-enlightenment standard. Everything is made out of atoms, we all live on the same planet, we even use the same words all of which are defined right here in these written scribbles on bound pages / glowing screens! How could it be possible we live in different worlds? If it’s from someone with a different facial structure or clothing then the magical word of “culture” is invoked. If it’s from someone who looks or sounds funny then it’s chalked up to them being crazy kooks. And yet, sometime or another, we intuitively know that “we all live in the same world” is simply not the case. That perspective was explained by someone who has 99.x% the same DNA and made of the same 100% starstuff as you, saw something different through the two balls in their head. Something different enough that it makes you question not their way of looking at the world, but yours.

That is how I’ve felt about everything for a long time. Wherever I go and whatever I do there usually is some sort of rulebook or dictionary to look up, but the moment I put down the map to look at the territory, it’s without fail so wildly different I wonder if I should’ve bothered to begin with. The overwhelming proportion of the rules and definitions rarely ever have more power than mere guidelines and suggestions, so much so that they should’ve been presented instead as “some guy’s introduction to this subject matter”. It should be read as WEBSTER’s Dictionary not Webster’s DICTIONARY and Encyclopedia BRITANNICA not ENCYCLOPEDIA Britannica, which is only made harder these days because who’s actually in charge at “en.wikipedia.org” or “dictionary.com“?

Do people, the vast majority of actual living human beings, actually say, “In event of dispute, the rules/definitions laid out by this faceless third party will be the revealed word of the almighty god-or-science?” I feel instead that people usually already have some vague idea of their own to begin with. Rules and definitions, or more generally, “truths”, are less things that will strike omnipotent lightning against any and all who oppose it, and more just things that happen to be lying around for those who can use them. Like a fireteam happening to reach and secure a hill or a building before their enemies. It’s not that they’re not objectively true, or effectively objectively true (e.g. social norms). They’re loci of power, but they’re not god-or-science. Things are there, but they’re only there as much as people understand them. A military that understands cavalry but not firearms will charge; a military that understands firearms considers open land in front of a position watched by the enemy would seen as a bottomless cliff. It’s not actually a bottomless cliff. But it might as well be.

In this sense it wouldn’t be incorrect to say people create the world. One world per person. And the differences are more common than you think – so much so that it might be accurate to say,

“What you see isn’t necessarily reality.
Everyone has secrets, things they can’t tell others.
There are no normal people anywhere.”

– Celty Sturluson, Durarara!!


Playerunknown’s Battlegrounds (“PUBG”) is an online PvP battle royale survival shooter: 100 enter, 1 leaves. It has been out since late March 2017, and every week since then up until recently, its peak concurrent players have only risen. It solidly holds its position as the most popular game on Steam, in turn the most popular digital distribution platform for PC games. PUBG‘s peak concurrent players at time of writing is ~2.2M, the next two positions are ~800k (DOTA2) and ~640k (CSGO). Though it has desync problems, server issues, and questionable moves on part of the developer in relation to development progress, streamers, and monetization, there has been no stops on its continued success.

I use PUBG as my example this time because

  1. I’ve recently gotten to play it myself,
  2. it’s popular,
  3. it’s easy to understand, and
  4. the parts of it I am going to use are nonpoliticized.

In general when I’ve tried to used real-world examples to talk about something else entirely, they’ve been read almost entirely differently from what I intended. I don’t see any problem using obscure comparisons, but apparently no one else agrees.

PUBG, specifically, how to think about playing PUBG, looks like it could bypass many of these problems. It’s a PvP game with no story, so the inside of it has no politics. It’s a 3D game rather than some concept, and (I think) more people have a better grasp of pseudo-physical and spatial realities than do people who can keep up with complex arguments. The game has no experience/progression system along with very few mechanics, so there’s no hidden unknowable depths that can be gatekept by “veterans”. And finally, it’s not only popular, but I feel for once I have a decent understanding as to why it is.

In other, shorter words: PUBG is a convenient coincidence.

Originally I was fully opposed to the PUBG hype. Openworld-survival-pvp-crafting has been around for a very long time, producing iteration upon bad iteration, with the original DayZ starting as an Arma3 mod in who knows what year and having been “in development” as a standalone game since 2012, then came H1Z1 and a bunch of other -Z’s whose names I forget, but it’s okay, because none of them have ever amounted to anything. PUBG though for whatever reason has not died off, and I wasn’t inclined to look into it because it was “Early Access” like all the other trash, and posters on /v/ wouldn’t stop spamming that welding helmet and the orange explosion as OP images. Literally everything else anyone talks about can come up with more than one (1) image; for whatever reason these PUBG guys couldn’t. Apparently PUBG removed the zombies, persistence, crafting, and simplified the formula down to just a battle royale.

This formula I still had problems with. Not having played or watched it much at all except to determine the general feel for accuracy and ranges, it was pretty clear that the game involved doing a lot of nothing. You have 100 people dropping into an area that’s 64km2 – that’s a really, really low population density. Even if most people start off in the same place, most of the game’s duration almost by definition will not involve combat. Most of it won’t even involve picking things up. If you don’t find a car, a very likely scenario to the average player, then most of the game involves running from “The Blue”, which over time forces all remaining players into smaller and smaller areas. A few minutes of picking stuff up, a lot of minutes just running, and then in a few seconds, loud sounds and death. Someone saw you before you saw them, they took their shots, and now it’s game over. Back to the menus with you.

If the fundamentals of the game’s balance are that aim is at all accurate, if damage is that high and fire rate is that fast, if the kill speed is significantly higher than travel speed and visibility problems are nonexistent… that’s the kind of game that necessarily results. It’s probably not too far from how it’d work in real life (“The Blue” not withstanding) but realism doesn’t mean good design. I just thought I’d do something better with my time. I’d occasionally read about PUBG in a certain blog I follow, but that was about it.

I got PUBG after watching my friend play it for a few hours. Watching him play it, with all the shiny marketing and wHoA sO cUhRaZy stripped away and replaced with a down-to-earth personality I was familiar and comfortable with, the appeal of the game was clear: it’s the tension. Saying that most of the game is spent “doing nothing” is not untrue, but the important part is that most of the game is also spent “potentially doing something very significant in the next moment”. You’re not shooting every second, but you are paying attention. At any time you could spot something in the next second that tells you that an enemy is around. Perhaps they spot you and you get notified with the crack of a bullet, perhaps with it the loss of a third of your health. Or maybe nothing will happen.

But something could.

After having played PUBG for about 30 hours now and gaining some desire to become more proficient, I’ve noticed that there are very, very different ways of approaching how to play it. My main reason in getting PUBG was simply to spend time with a friend, and certainly it explains a lot of others’ way of thinking about the game too. Just to make it simple, we’re going to pass over these “social” mindsets in favor of looking those that are about winning. Winning in this game is clearly defined: be the last one standing. But the mindsets built to achieve that are different. It’s the same game everyone’s playing, yet the understandings between them aren’t the same at all.

I’ve seen four different mindsets: four different PUBG’s, four different worlds.

They are:

  • World of Campers
  • World of Looters
  • World of Predators
  • World of Gods

“Imagine you exist within a sacred landscape. How could a modern person conceive of that? Well that’s easy. Leave home for… a while. And then come back. Let’s say it’s your parents’ home and you’ve been gone for fifteen years, and you come back and everything in the house is imbued with magical significance.

And you might say well that’s not inherent to the object. Like, yeah, sure. Depending on how you define the object. It’s completely inherent to the object as they manifest themselves in your realm of perception. And you can dissociate the object itself from the subjective overlay, but that’s not such an easy thing to do, and it’s not so self-evident. And it’s not even obvious that what you’re doing when you do that is coming up with a more accurate picture of reality, because the picture of reality that represents the item of sacred importance.

How do you know that importance isn’t the most important part of that item? That’s how you act. You won’t throw it away. Well, why? It’s just a material entity. Well no it’s not. It’s an element of being. And that’s a different thing.

And so what people prior to the dawn of the materialist age was producing maps of being, and that meant things had historical significance. The mountain where your grandfather was buried was not the same mountain as another mountain. And you might say, yes they are, they’re made out of the same clay and silica and all of that, and it’s like, yeah, man, you’re missing the point.

A Westerner might say, “yes but it’s extraordinarily useful to differentiate and to act as if there’s an objective reality and a subjective reality because it opens up all sorts of new avenues of pursuit”, and yes, that’s why we’re technological wizards. But we’ve lost something. We’ve lost our capacity to understand the reality of that overlay that we scraped off in order to produce objective reality.”

– Jordan B. Peterson


CAMPERS

A not-uncommon way to play the game involves sitting inside a building with cover on all sides, and gun pointing at the point of entry. Sometimes it’s a shed, sometimes it’s a bathroom, sometimes it’s in the kitchen, if it’s that kind of kitchen.

The idea is that it’s the optimal way to survive. Guns are deadly. The map has really wide open spaces that make it hard to see people and hard to be protected from bullets. If you don’t want to die then you need to not get shot, if you want to not get shot you need cover. And if you want to kill people before they kill you, the best thing to have is surprise. What better combination of these elements than hiding in a small room in a building? Guaranteed safety up until the moment that door opens, and while you get to hear the intruder’s footsteps, they have no information on you up until the moment they open that door. When they do, they’ll be surprised, and you won’t.

The definition of winning is being able to shoot first.

What causes loss is lack of the element of surprise.

LOOTERS

This game starts everyone off with no offensive or defensive items, air-dropping from the same plane over a random flight path. What little background lore there is on the game states that this is some deserted russian island, which just happens to have quite a few guns, ammo, and armor just laying around for everyone to use and kill each other with. There is some variety between the weapons, with pistols, SMGs, shotguns, and rifles to pick up, all doing varying amounts of damages at various ranges.

The idea of the looter is simply to win via having more/better items. If, for example, a rifle does more damage, has more bullets per magazine, and can take scopes to make longer range shooting easier, then it’s of utmost importance to have a rifle. To be the last man standing you must have some health when everyone else has none, and what causes that is more healing and more power. More, more, more.

This is how my friend and I duo – we just go around continually getting more stuff from more buildings all game long. Both in duo and in solo using this mindset has reliably gotten me to sub-25 rankings… though, since I generally also don’t hit my shots, nor ever have time to heal, I think it’s really more to do with how I initially land from the plane and how I think about moving around afterwards than anything else.

I picked this up from the blog I mentioned earlier, and idea is so strong it can get you to the overall top 0.5%. Gevlon intentionally sits as far away from anyone as possible, sometimes even deep within “The Blue”, just healing until he runs out and dies. On average he kills someone once every 33 games. My (effectively) no-items running around can reliably get to top 25, Gevlon’s heals galore reliably gets him within top 10.

And top 10 is where all the ratings gains happen. The game doesn’t really care so much how many other people you kill, it cares how long you survive relative to everyone else.

The definition of winning is the most reliable method of climbing the overall competitive “ladder”. As applied to PUBG, the definition of winning is: actively avoiding danger.

What causes loss is having poor strategy.

PREDATORS

It’s a battle royale: in the beginning there were many, and in the end only one will be left alive. Since it’s not actually Battle Royale and it’s PUBG instead, you can’t leave the island or team up to fight the power, and the actual only way to win is by everyone else dying. Since they’re probably not going to go off and die on their own, you have to kill them. And if you’re going to kill them, you might as well do more of it, sooner, where possible. Generally speaking, anyways – too much danger doesn’t work, but too little of it means that it’s not clear if it’s there. Unknown dangers are worse than known dangers, and the danger is not only out there, it’s here inside your head. If you’re constantly fighting, then you’re ready. If all is silent for just a little too long, rust builds up quick.

The definition of winning is more actively controlling and reducing potential danger.

I recently found a fairly unique streamer through watching various videos and, though he usually doesn’t drop in high-risk-high-reward areas, when he does, he chooses specific parts of it which are locally less populated and easier to secure his position. chocoTaco almost always sticks to his overall mid-game strategy of finding a certain kind of building in a central location and defending it. The type of building is one which has open stretches of land on all sides, meaning if someone happens to be around, he will have access to cover and they will not. The central location means he will never be too far from the next safe zone from “The Blue”.

The moment he sees someone he starts shooting. chocoTaco has said multiple times while in extremely exposed positions, “I wouldn’t mind taking a few shots right now. Then I’d know where they are / I’d see some action”. This isn’t an untrue way of thinking. With only a few exceptions no gun will kill you in one hit, and only rarely will a gunshot not have a sound effect telling you which direction the shot came from. Regardless of how good your eyes are at hunting pixels, you could always use the help of someone else, and if you’re getting shot at that means there’s an enemy that can see you. Also helpfully is that most people in this game are bad shots. If you have reliable and quick access to cover, a few shots are basically as good as “Marco!”.

Sure, those bullets could hit. But what if they don’t hit? What if they weren’t fired? What if you chose a poorer area with a poorer building, and someone not only could but decided they would sit near your vehicle, waiting for you to come back out when the next “Blue” is announced to shotgun you in the face? That would be more dangerous. Better to set fire to the forests before the forests decide to set fire to you.

chocoTaco’s way of playing definitely requires more skill than Gevlon’s, but with a little tweaking here and there it can be used for fair chunk of the playerbase. Pick shots rather than picking them all. Don’t run around outside. Something else he recommends is to not loot after a certain point: there’s a certain amount of certain things you need, after that don’t worry about it, because 1) after a very early point the people you’ll run into will be dangerous, 2) it increases the probability you will run into campers, and 3) if you’re looting buildings or bodies, you aren’t paying attention to what’s around you.

In this way, lack of attention, not bullets, is what causes death.

If there’s five people and everyone’s hiding, no one knows anything about anyone, which means everyone at every point might be in danger. If instead one guy is firing at another and that guy is firing back, then there’s at least two points to focus on. Not only has the number of unknowns has been reduced from 5 to 3, those 3 remaining are probably also focused on the known 2. You can decide to look for the danger first. If you find them first, you have the surprise. If you didn’t, but you didn’t die, surprise is not a factor. If you’re firing then it’s usually at the cost of your own position, but in the end it’s a decision. Are you going to put yourself in some danger to obtain information, or aren’t you? Remember, you’re in general danger anyways. It’s a battle royale after all.

Given a skill level like chocoTaco’s, that decision is a pretty easy one – to a certain extent.

Some others though play like there’s no extent.

GODS

Based on how people drop and the most popular videos on youtube, this is the most popular way. People overwhelmingly prefer to drop in the few large areas with the highest chance of high quality items, knowing full well that that’s what other people have in mind and it’s up to whoever happens to find guns first and gets better shots off that wins. And that’s all okay, because [I] WILL drop the fastest, [I] WILL get to the best guns first, and [I] WILL kill everyone before they get to kill me. Almost all the top videos are killcam highlights of crazy trick shots. The “gunplay” in this game is not very interesting, the death animations are nonexistent, yet that’s what’s focused on, because that’s the definition of winning.

The definition of winning is killing everyone as they appear no matter the situation.

What causes loss is low skill.

These are the players that will talk about “git gud”, because that’s the prerequisite. Not even a loose prerequisite, but an absolute one. If you are just running around not really thinking about what you’re doing, and you want to win, you better be extremely good at what you do. In a simple game like PUBG it comes down to putting more/bigger bullets into the enemy before they do you and, since enemies are on average really poor shots, it doesn’t seem too far out of reach. It especially doesn’t seem far with all the streamers out there, seemingly randomly getting into dangerous situations just like they do, whipping out quick kills or even instant kills with sniper rifle headshots, then turning back and answering fun and personal questions from their public chats. With little old them.

In my due diligence minimal research for this section of this post I’ve watched a bit played by a few big name streamers, and they all largely follow this line. A few hours of Shroud showed he doesn’t seem to place much of a priority on dropping safely or securing a vehicle, at one point he stands around for almost 30 seconds, pondering aloud his next move – meaning he doesn’t have a strategy or a plan. What little I watched of Tecnosh was largely the same with dropping into really high risk areas. His midgame strat though does exist: he’s permanently driving around in a type of vehicle that’s large enough to give him plenty of cover, giving him the choice to pick engagements and be in a decent position if he decides to pick one. But nothing else he did made sense.

I was watching Grimmmz for a third example, but less than an hour in I just had to hear him talk about how youtube is bad because it’s too easy for random trolls to take down other peoples’ videos. Which is unfortunate because 1) He streams a hell of a lot on a lot of different games and I had to scroll down to last month to find one that was mostly PUBG, and 2) I just happened to be on a certain thread while searching for other streamers to look up and maybe prove myself wrong, and I read that Grimmmz is the guy who set the precedent for honking while in a streamer’s game to be a bannable offense (there’s no names in-game until you’re dead so you can’t possibly know if you’re being watched), he also took down a video of some deliberate stream honking on youtube… by a copyright claim. Wow! Shortly after I found out Shroud is the one behind the banning of suspected “stream snipers”, meaning “people who watch my in-game screen, which purely by my own volition i have put up for public display, who attempt to get in the same game with me, and who use that information to their advantage”. Not that he has any problem with all the stream snipers who come up to him harmlessly and stand around to feed him kills and items though. Of course not. God I hate streamers. Streaming was a civilization-level mistake. But that’s a different topic.

Off topic as well as on topic, Grimmmz just like Shroud didn’t display anything particular of note other than very very reliable shooting skills. Everything else was a wash. These are some of the biggest streamers on Twitch, and among others are the ones you’ll hear about if you look up which PUBG players to watch if you want to “git gud”.

Those players act like gods, and in many ways, they really are gods. Generally speaking, past the first few minutes after they’ve gotten geared up, everyone they see *will* die.

However, when newcomers see and attempts to emulate “not caring and simply making things happen”, what happens is they become prey. And they’ll like being prey, because every once in a while the stars will align, they’ll get that victory screen for being the last man standing, that “WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!”, and in that moment that will overshadow all else, they too will have become a god.


Everyone who plays PUBG is playing the same game… in a sense. They’re all connecting to the same servers and interacting with the same 3D world and ranked on the same /100 in game and by some other numbers out of game.

Yet they’re not playing the same game.

So many times I’ve seen chocoTaco notice someone outside his building, someone who also knows he’s inside because he makes it obvious by breaking windows and parking right next to a door, and he simply jumps out of a second-story window to flank and make a clean kill. Most people know that it’s possible to leave a building from the second floor… when they’re safe and looting. But when they’re approaching a threat inside a building, people usually think if they watch “the entrances” then they’re safe, and “the entrances to a building”, generally speaking, means “doors on the first floor”. In that moment, their world is just the first floor’s doors. Even though they’re making an assault on a building, what they see isn’t all that different from the guy squatting on a toilet or laying down in a bathtub.

In one game I was playing alone I happened to reach a “care package”, a random airdrop which has items much more powerful than those that spawn on the island. Usually people go for these and I don’t, but for some reason this one was untouched, and I got my hands on a big belt-fed machinegun. The strongest non-sniper weapon in the game. I had survived and made it to the final 10 with such a weapon.

But with that power I laid down in the grass.

And did nothing. No damage.

And then I died.

So I might as well have had a submachinegun. Or no gun at all.

In one game chocoTaco was fired upon by a machinegun. He took up residence in the next building over, and while looking around for other enemies, he constantly wondered the machine gun was silent. Paraphrased, he said something like ‘What’s this guy doing? He has the big gun, he can do whatever he wants. Why isn’t he pushing me?’. Eventually, chocoTaco got an angle jumping around different rooftops to get a grenade in for the kill. From the time chocoTaco originally got fired upon to that grenade, the machinegun did not fire a single shot. Our bunnyhopper had worse weapons and a more exposed position. But he won and the big gun didn’t, and it wasn’t due to “luck” or some “trickshot”. He does have luck and can pull trickshots, but that’s not important.

Or perhaps it’s all that’s important. chocoTaco explains what he’s doing and is almost always doing the same strategy – a strategy that’s boring. It’s good, and when it’s fun it’s fun, but it’s boring. Gevlon has an even more solid strategy, and if he streamed, it would be even more boring.

You know what is exciting though?

“OOOOOOOOOOH!!!!!!”
“OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD!”
“WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?”

What was I talking about?

I’ve gone at pretty decent length describing a few things in this post, but none at all right there. So what was I talking about? Do you have any idea?

The most common player such a good idea, this reveal wouldn’t even be a reveal.

Ignore the commentary by the aggregator, just pay attention to what the people from inside the gameplay clips say.

When they do or see things like that, they see

“That could be me. This is fun.

This is a game worth playing.”

When I see things like that, I see

“Some of that stuff really was legitimately good decisions and good moves, but a lot of it shouldn’t even happened to begin with. More than a few of those bad situations were as a result of bad choices. You don’t get in fistfights with 4 people if you don’t decide to land at a terrible building in a populated area. You don’t get that far outside a circle if you pay attention.

And most importantly, all of them had really stupid reactions. Are you skilled or are you not? If you are, then it should be a “oh neat, that worked” surprise and not an “OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD” surprise. If you’re not, then yes, that’s the appropriate response… but submitting that to a “Top Plays of the Week” contest means you don’t think that. Or you do, and think the results of skills are worth no more than results of accidents.

And if there’s someone with high reach out there that makes videos accepting such submissions with a title like “Top Plays of the Week”… well.

This is a game for stupid monkeys.”

Those two games are not the same game. Land in front of an enemy formation is not the same as an enemy position watching over a bottomless cliff. The game I see in that video is also not the same game as the one I play.

It’s also entirely possible there is some method behind the madness of the streamers I watched. I like Gevlon and chocoTaco not just because they can win, but because they are a certain kind of person. They give explanations about what they do and how they think, ones which are close enough to how I think that I feel I could’ve said something like that myself.

There’s a lot of advice videos on PUBG out there and a lot of them talk about practice practice practice. Having heard “practice practice practice” might be helpful for some people but I feel like I wasted my time and wish youtube’s video ranking system still worked based on up/down votes. More than a few videos I’ve watched on How To Improve Aim give the advice to drop into highly contested areas over and over because that’s the highest frequency of fighting you can get. Which I thought was just stupid because there’s a minute pre-game, a minute dropping, and if you drop into such an area it’s maybe a minute before you’re probably going to die, all for a (one) (1) gunfight. That’s a frequency of 1 every 3 minutes.

chocoTaco says basically the same thing:

“The truth is, if you really want to work on your aim, you need to play a different game on the side. Unfortunately, PUBG is a terrible game for working on your shot. There are plans for the devs to include a shooting range in the game, but we have no idea when this will be added, or even if it will be added. The problem is there’s so much deadtime between kills that you truly can’t practice your shot. Not only that, but PUBG isn’t really a game where you rack up kills.

Let’s say you win a game with 10 kills, that takes something like 35 minutes, so that’s about 1 kill every 3 1/2 minutes. And that’s only sometimes. Sometimes you’ll get no kills. Sometimes you’ll get one kill.

Any other shooter that’s fast paced will work great for practicing your aim.”

He follows this up by saying he personally uses CSGO to practice.

To which my good friend Laxeris responded:

LAX: Absolutely disgusting
LAX: >CS:GO
LAX: DROPPED
REZ: im playing it for pubguh aims
LAX: Poor excuse
[…]
LAX: You’re better off practicing your aim in pubg
LAX: Or playing something like Osu
LAX: Or some aiming trainer
[…]
LAX: https://aim400kg.com/
[…]
REZ: why do you prefer that flash site over playing csgo or some other shooter
LAX: Because Cs go is shit
LAX: If I want to practice shooting I’ll practice in the game I’m playing
[…]
LAX: This is why I say just play bubg
REZ: but flash clickers are better than csgo??
LAX: Yes
REZ: why?
LAX: Cus csgo is shit
LAX: It’s bascially the same problem you said earlier when compairing cs to bubg
LAX: 10 seconds inbetween each shot
REZ: 10s while having to look around isnt so bad
LAX: Whereas most trainers have them at 1-5 intervals

I like these three guys because I can understand them. They don’t completely agree with each other, but they share enough of the same kind of mindset that I see what’s going on. A certain way of looking at the world… of creating the world.

And yet they come to opposite results on how the game should be played. The Way of the Looter and the Way of the Predator couldn’t be more different from each other. Within one mindset of a certain criteria, two opposing mindsets of a different criteria result. Then we add in all the other mindsets, not only the Campers and Gods (who are obviously just wrong), but those people who are just around for social reasons and don’t care about winning at all. Then add in all the things these mindsets do in not-PUBG.

Grimmmz clearly doesn’t care about freedom of speech or sanctity of law. He cares about something, but it’s not that. Same with certain other streamers and certain other things we understand to be general moral guidelines. Certainly, they’re able to get away with it because they have powerful positions, but they also have a way of creating the world that makes doing these things a possibility to begin with. That part doesn’t come from the power.

How else do different mindsets appear in all the other realms of human activity?

What else exists that we can’t see?

Game of Truth

REZ: i remember one summer a long time ago
REZ: probably middle school
REZ: i went to a “writing camp” over the summer
REZ: i.e. a class run by non-teachers
REZ: and for some reason i forget we played this game
REZ: two people would be blindfolded and put into a ring
REZ: a rolled up newspaper would be thrown in there
REZ: and there’s two stages to the game
REZ: first is someone needs to find the newspaper
REZ: second is when the newspaper is found, it’s announced, then the guy with the newspaper needs to be able to find and whack the other guy
REZ: arena size was…
REZ: i was a kid so it was smaller; i’m trying to imagine how large it’d be for an adult
REZ: 9×9′ or 10×10′, thereabouts
REZ: i wasnt the first to play so i got a chance to see others play for a while, maybe it was even the second or third time it happened until it was my turn
REZ: maybe multiple days, maybe not, i forget
REZ: but the way i saw people do it was really really obtuse
REZ: granted it’s young teens doing it but whatever they had in their minds, it was different than mine
REZ: newspaper’s somewhere on the ground, and what they do is they reach out at different spots with their hands to see what’s there
REZ: second phase was basically the same except standing up and with one guy not reaching out at different spots
REZ: maybe 3~5 minute rounds of people blindfolded, acting as if they weren’t blindfolded
REZ: as if the lights had just been turned off
REZ: the whole time.
REZ: then it came my turn with some girl
REZ: and i swam along the carpet
REZ: the objective was to find a newspaper and there was nothing that would hurt me, so the strategy as far as i could tell involved covering the largest amount of area as soon as possible
REZ: made me look like an idiot but i wasn’t interested in that
REZ: so basically, breaststroke.
REZ: unfortunately my strategy wasn’t able to get me the newspaper because i hadn’t thought through how to measure covered ground versus uncovered ground, and i started in a bad direction
REZ: i hit the edge of the arena multiple times and didn’t know where i was facing after i got turned around
REZ: so now i’m the hunted versus the hunter
REZ: and rather than walking around with the smallest profile like a girl in a movie walking down a dark unfamiliar street
REZ: my upper body was about as wide as it’d normally be
REZ: but i was basically squatting with how far apart my legs were
REZ: and rather than having (nothing) to indicate to me where my opponent was
REZ: i listened and felt for heat
REZ: if i felt something, i’d move far with only a few strides
REZ: i’d stay mostly put otherwise unless something changed
REZ: it went on for 10~15 minutes until the “teachers” finally stopped it.
REZ: i got pretty popular afterwards for a few minutes.
REZ: then afterwards the game was broken and i don’t think anyone really felt tension from playing it anymore.
REZ: both players would always start out with breaststroke and whoever got the newspaper would instantly start swinging it around like a madman
REZ: i forget if everyone actually got a chance to play in the end or if it was just stopped without comment.
REZ: oh yeah i forgot one part of the story
LAX: I feel like someone would have accidentally gotten punched like that
REZ: when the blindfold was put on, i was also the first to insist on a certain way it was put on
REZ: namely, that they didn’t cover my ears.
REZ: oh sure
REZ: i meant relatively speaking
REZ: rather than a swordsman in a dark dungeon on the wary for large monsters
REZ: the hunter actually did assume the role of the hunter after that
REZ: moved quick, “sword” in front, extended arms
REZ: one time where i really did change ‘everything’.
REZ: i solved it
REZ: and then i ruined it.
LAX: What do you mean ruined it?
REZ: what’s the point in playing a game?
LAX: To win
REZ: no no no
REZ: that’s the point when you’re already playing a game
REZ: why do you pick up a game?
REZ: why play a game rather than do something else?
LAX: Because other stuff is boring?
REZ: yes
REZ: because games are fun
REZ: it wasn’t fun after i and whoever came after me solved it, me with the search and defensive standards, and him with the offensive standard
REZ: “everyone” had a certain understanding of “how” the game was played
REZ: then i played it
REZ: and that other guy played it.
REZ: it was a game of tension and mystery
REZ: then it became a dice roll.
REZ: or rather, a coin flip.
REZ: i wonder if i was the dumb one in the end.
LAX: Nope
LAX: You were the only one to think outside the box
LAX: The rest of the kids followed in your footsteps, no one else attempted to change it
LAX: It’s like when a new “unbeatable” meta shows up in a game
LAX: Everyone conforms to that meta and no one tries to break it
LAX: Everyone was doing what you did rather than thinking about how to beat what you did
LAX: AKA they were fucking stupid sheep
REZ: as was the case with most educational summer camps, no kid actually wanted to be there and little of it was interesting at all
REZ: that was the first time something happened that was both interesting and something they couldnt simply replicate at home
REZ: you really do need a human ring creating an arena for no danger of running into things to be involved, and enough eyes on the scene to determine what the objective state of the game is
REZ: but after those two games it was just another thing to do.
REZ: and then not a thing to do, because it stopped.
REZ: back to writing stupid shit no one cares about and no one reads.
LAX: The problem with your story isnot that you ruined the game
LAX: It’s that the game was stupid.
REZ: oh sure
LAX: Or more that the rest of the kids were….
REZ: we’re adults and we have experience with games so we can see that the design was absolutely retarded
REZ: but i don’t think that changes the purpose and niche the game filled for that situation at that time
REZ: everyone played the game as if there was also the rule that you had to act as if you could actually see
REZ: and that created a certain feel for the game
REZ: i played as if that rule didn’t exist and revealed that the emperor wasn’t really wearing any clothes
REZ: good for me i suppose
REZ: but all that was left for me and everyone else after that was looking at a hairy fat ugly old man.
LAX: The real problem is that you were theonly person that actually played the game
LAX: In a competetive game the goal is to win
LAX: Or rather to beat the other person
LAX: Everyone saw that you found the winning defense strategy
LAX: If there were a few smart kids in that group the game could have been a bit more like rock paper sissors with a phsyical aspect
LAX: The problem with being smart is you tend to ruin the “fun” for everyone else who isn’t smart.
LAX: No one else there had the physical or mental capacity to win aginast a decently thought out plan
LAX: But, was there a point to that story?
REZ: i’ve been reading some of the kaiji stuff i hadnt before since i cant sleep and something in there reminded me of this story
REZ: the point was that i wasn’t sure if it was the right move
LAX: It was the right move for you
REZ: it was the right move inside the game.
LAX: Same difference
REZ: no, i think it was the wrong move outside
REZ: there’s fewer smart people than dumb people
LAX: No matter what, the same outcome would have happened
REZ: if smart people can figure out a way to win, they should also figure out the cost of ruining the whole thing
REZ: on a long enough timeline, yes
REZ: but it was a camp of like 4 weeks, maybe 16 days
REZ: and its not like we played all that time
REZ: the dumb kids wouldn’t have made it out, only the smarter ones
REZ: we could’ve played for a few hours longer rather than not
LAX: With enough iterations the game would have evolved anyways
LAX: With your strat that is
LAX: Someone would have figured out how to beat it
LAX: Really, the burden lies on the teachers.
LAX: For ruining the game
LAX: They’re the ones who cancled it, presumably
REZ: i think that way of thinking will evade the understanding of a lot of things people do
REZ: there are more dumb kids than smart kids, more dumb people than smart people
LAX: Sure
REZ: how much of society is run with the super smart people pretending just enough so that all the dumb people continue enjoying life the way things are?
REZ: or rather: not seeing how absolutely retarded their situation is, not realize such a thing, and thus also never start trying to even want to look for a way out of it?
LAX: A lot.
REZ: probably.
REZ: and people like us, not-dumb not-super-smart people, spend time looking at how to win the individual games instead.

Age vs Class

SH: i dont understand how somebody can sue without any sort of medical problems or anything
SH: why doesnt the lawyer take one look at you and just be like, nah i dont think so
SI: what the fuck? she’s suing over a fucking fender bender?
SI: itll be laughed out of court
SH: it doesnt matter @SI
QC: I’m gonna cry if I go to court
KS: no she’s suing over chronic neck pain
SH: the point is settlement
SH: and the idea that youll have to pay out the nose for a lawyer
KS: oh yeah QC is a girl
QC: And then I won’t be able to speak because I’ll be blubbering
KS: perfect
SH: most people are scared of that so they settle
KS: the rate of out of court settlement is directly proportional to the rate of societal fraud
KS: I mean, freedom.
SH: freedumbz
SI: she doesnt have a case if her car just got nudged. you got this. fucking harpie trying to extort money
SH: it might cost just as much for her to settle as it does for a lawyer
SH: i mean youre right
KS: you don’t understand! she has a history of fragile bones!!
SH: chances are QC it will only be like 5000 or soemthing
SH: they cover you up to 25k right?
SH: youll be fine
KS: are you just going to make her suffer for life? how are you going to make things right!?!!
SH: the more money they ask for the more risk of them for a court battle, which is what they dont want
SI: ^
SI: scare tactics
SI: she’ll back off most likely if you don’t want to settle
KS: what if Americans are actually just a bunch of pussies :thoughting:
SH: she should settle as long as its covered by insurance
SI: yeah it all depends on the cost
SH: if its not then you call the lawyers
SH: because up until that point, it would cost more for the lawyer and ensuing court battle
SH: the american legal system is so :ugh:
KS: better to just give the bullies your lunch money until they ask for an amount where it’d be better to tell your parents and the school what’s happening……..
KS: :thoughting::thoughting::thoughting::thoughting::thoughting:
SH: @KS it costs a shitton of money for a lawyer, only rich housewives can afford it
SH: its bullying that you cant really avoid unless youre rich
KS: sure, I’m just thoughting.
KS: there’s just so many things like this you’d think this sort of thing would be taught in school or at least be explained in children’s stories
SH: my mother would have gotten a lawyer to fight against my father a long time ago but, well, most of our income and the money he stole left with him
SH: some things you just cant fight
KS: but you rarely find it anywhere
SH: @KS because children’s stories are fictitious
SH: nobody writes children’s stories about the real horrible things, they just write about hansel and gretel and shit
QC: IDK I’m sick to my stomach about it
KS: yeah but adult stories don’t write about it either
KS: we get stupid shit like SVU
SH: i think a lot of them do
SH: oh
KS: or marginally less stupid shit at best like The Wire
SH: maybe theres a few movies about it
SH: i dunno
KS: even Japanese seinen only uses it here and there from what I’ve seen
SH: scamming insurance companies through poor unsuspecting people isnt exactly heart-pounding material
KS: feels like it’s less children vs adults and more just different classes of people
KS: do you think Mafia guys the age of 15 don’t understand these things intuitively?
KS: of course they do.
KS: but they’re also raised by different people, people who don’t care to write books and mass paperback novels.